eht13 posted:Well, I mostly meant we've been told that by the movie.
eht13 posted:But I do wonder if Qui-Gon's explanation addresses what would happen if limbs containing cells were lost, because it is a reasonable question.
Jabba_The_Hutt_123 posted:Didn't Palpatine tell Dooku that he would intervene to save his life? If so that is an outright lie. Didn't Palpatine tell Anakin that he could save Padme from death, then later say he didn't actually know how to but together they could do it? Didn't he promise Gunray peace? You can argue as he's dead he's at peace but even so. Though I do agree, he is very good at manipulating rather than outright, like the Jedi planning to take over, he just failed to mention they were taking over because a sith lord was in charge and would become a dictator.
Arawn_Fenn posted:Pocu posted:Are you sure? Yes.
Pocu posted:Are you sure?
Arawn_Fenn posted:eht13 posted:Well, I mostly meant we've been told that by the movie. Which movie do you mean? Do you mean by logical inference from TPM? If so, I agree. But we've never been explicitly told this. eht13 posted:But I do wonder if Qui-Gon's explanation addresses what would happen if limbs containing cells were lost, because it is a reasonable question. We see how a midichlorian count is taken in TPM, and we are told that it is a cell concentration.
Pocu posted:Could you give any reasons for your opinion?
Arawn_Fenn posted:Pocu posted:Could you give any reasons for your opinion? I already did. The quote was: We see how a midichlorian count is taken in TPM, and we are told that it is a cell concentration.
Pocu posted:So, you cannot claim the count remains the same
Pocu posted:But he obtained metal limbs which are not alive.
Arawn_Fenn posted:Pocu posted:So, you cannot claim the count remains the same Yes, I can. TPM shows how a midichlorian count is taken. If taken in the same way the results would be the same.
Arawn_Fenn posted:Pocu posted:But he obtained metal limbs which are not alive. It doesn't matter. He has the same concentration in the remaining cells. You don't seem to understand what is meant by calling it a cell concentration.
SithStarSlayer posted:This is the best thread, EVER. For the sake of argument, lets break Vader down into body parts, and scale it down to one cell per body part and then calculate from there. Head = One Cell = 20,000 midis Torso = One Cell = 20,000 midis 1/2 R.Arm = 1/2 Cell = 10,000 midis L.Arm = One Cell = 20,000 midis R.Leg = One Cell = 20,000 midis L.Leg = One Cell = 20,000 midis Vader's midichorian count is 110,000 for 5 and 1/2 'cells'... We're going macro here, kids. So, for the sake of not putting up a bazillion zeros; due to cell count of each limb, I've simplified the equation. Unsuited Vader on Mustafar, was missing half an arm already so I've accounted for that ahead of time. Now, let's look at Chop-suey Vader Head = One Cell = 20,000 midis Torso = One Cell = 20,000 midis 1/2 R.Arm = 1/2 Cell = 10,000 midis 1/2 L.Arm = 1/2 Cell = 10,000 midis 1/2 R.Leg = 1/2 Cell = 10,000 midis 1/2 L.Leg = 1/2 Cell = 10,000 midis Vader's midichorian TOTAL midi-count is 80,000 based upon reduced body mass... *** Less bodymass, means less midichlorians to work with. The pre-existing concentration levels remain unchanged at 20,000 midis per cell. Losing limbs doesn't actually change cell counts, losing limbs means lost cells... lost bodymass = lost potential. And thus, the total number of midis was decreased due to those lost limbs.
Pocu posted:We are not talking about the concentration, we are arguing if the total count has any significance.
Pocu posted:If someone has lost his legs he couldn't walk and run anymore. If the fingers have been lost --> typing on keyboard and using of fork is also lost. Same applies for the eyes, ears, etc. --> This one will not be able to sense the light, or sound anymore. It is injury! And the cell concentration has nothing to do with it.
Arawn_Fenn posted:Pocu posted:We are not talking about the concentration, we are arguing if the total count has any significance. The test for Force sensitivity does not measure total count. The phrase "midichlorian count" as used in the films has a specific meaning, and that is the meaning I refer to when I use the phrase. You can't redefine the term to mean something completely different, and then tell me the count does not remain the same.
Pocu posted:We are talking about 2 different things.
Pocu posted:Assuming that Vader has lost many of his midichlorians together with his arms and legs it should make him less powerful as before.
Arawn_Fenn posted:Pocu posted:We are talking about 2 different things. That's what I said. One of those things has significance as established by the films; the other does not. Pocu posted:Assuming that Vader has lost many of his midichlorians together with his arms and legs it should make him less powerful as before. According to who? The test for Force potential as shown in the films doesn't measure the total of all midichlorians in the body. It measures cell concentration. As depicted on screen, is Vader noticeably less powerful in the Force by TESB due to not having organic arms and legs? Is Yoda less powerful in the Force by virtue of being small?