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Author Topic: JC ideas and suggestions
Date Posted: 11/30/08 10:27am Subject: RE: JC ideas and suggestions - Date Edited: 11/30/08 10:29am (1 edits total) Edited By: harpuah
I disagree. I think consolidating will create more traffic.

gabe, I remember, started a thrtead about this a few years ago, and the point he made there still stands, I think.


I think it's time the Amphitheatre got assimilated back into YJCC. As nice of a forum as it has become over the years, the Amphitheatre forum was never really necessary to begin with - The JCC was basically just split in two, and the Amphitheatre walked away with the good stuff - the basic ingrediënts that made the JCC what it was back in the day - topics of shared interest wich naturally spawned social contact and friendships. I'm not one to look back on a 'golden age' and compare it to the current overall quality of a forum, but I feel that the JCC has come to a point where it needs that 50 percent, known now as the Amphitheatre, back where it belongs.


Here

It's frustrating to start a thread about a band or album, and watch is sink to the back of the JCC containing only "wut?" posts.

 

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 Date Posted: 11/30/08 10:34am Subject: RE: JC ideas and suggestions
I don't agree with condensing the Senate back into the JCC. I am indifferent to the Amp, I don't use it, anything on those topics I want to discuss is done in the JCC. However, I do not like the attempted serious discussions that occur in the JCC. Most of the time they just seem to cause more drama and the thread gets locked because of the nature of the beast of the JCC. Serious discussions on a message board where you can't see non-verbal signs or hear someone's tone of voice all lead to jumping to conclusions and thus require a more careful moderating and constant attention. I'd rather see the JCC mods focusing on the fun discussion parts of the JCC and being goofy.

 

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Date Posted: 11/30/08 10:44am Subject: RE: JC ideas and suggestions - Date Edited: 11/30/08 10:52am (2 edits total) Edited By: harpuah
Yeah, but really, does the JCC need to be limited to being "goofy?" I think allowing more diverse discussion, specific "serious" and more focused entertainment discussions, as well as the "goofy" threads would create a more well rounded forum. Yes, moderators would have to be more engaged and on top of things, but isn't that a good thing? Isn't that what is being discussed in the other thread (moderator review process)? Things need to change if the forum is going to resume thriving. Halting such progress because it would be too much work on the moderators behalf isn't helpful.

I'm not saying the forums would be completely pruned. Threads could be moved. Perhaps replacing a couple of the current "goofy content" moderators with Zaz and Lowbacca, so that there are moderators who are experienced with such content and discussion would benefit the place all around. That's what was done with the 3SA forum when it was consolidated with the PT forum, and that worked really well.

 

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 Date Posted: 11/30/08 11:09am Subject: RE: JC ideas and suggestions - Date Edited: 11/30/08 11:15am (1 edits total) Edited By: rhonderoo
If either of those two forums are condensed back into JCC, the JCC mods need to be prepared to mod with a little more deference to those type threads. Those who are serious about talking about their music without the lighthearted trolling, the Kikis and her cousin, the fueds, etc. need to be comfortable in knowing that it won't be allowed in those threads and doesn't fall under the "Oh, those JCC scamps" mindset that you sometimes have to deal with.

I've modded JCC and love the forum to death, but we ALL know it has it's characters. Those that want the serious discussion shouldn't have to deal with the kiddies or the jokers if they're just there to try to be the new thing in the forum, and the rules that apply in Amph and Senate should apply in those threads. In other words -- If you're going to click on a thread about religion vs. atheism and talk out your ass without any facts and just to start trouble, be prepared to be told to stay out of the thread. The JCC would have to include mods like Zaz and Jabbadabbdo on their team, like I saw mentioned above -- those that can keep those threads on track and out of lolville. Not saying JCC mods couldn't do it, but there's been that problem before even when I was on the team about modding the serious threads and keeping the thing on track without having to eventually lock it due to a flame fest. And it's hard if you're a JCC mod as it can be a lot of work to stay in a thread that's skating on the edge of a a flame war, because you don't want to lock the good discussion, but every other post is a post that could be a potential TOS violation when things get heated.

I'm certainly not saying it can't be done, and there are plenty of JCCers that post in the other two forums that can lead the discussions positively, but it will take more than just moving threads and combining mod teams.

 

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 Date Posted: 11/30/08 11:34am Subject: RE: JC ideas and suggestions
harpuah posted:
It's frustrating to start a thread about a band or album, and watch is sink to the back of the JCC containing only "wut?" posts.


more constructive JCC moderation would prevent that, and that's something we certainly aren't getting.

 

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 Date Posted: 11/30/08 12:56pm Subject: RE: JC ideas and suggestions - Date Edited: 11/30/08 12:58pm (1 edits total) Edited By: KnightWriter
However, I do not like the attempted serious discussions that occur in the JCC. Most of the time they just seem to cause more drama and the thread gets locked because of the nature of the beast of the JCC.

That's not true. I've been a participant for a long time now, and most discussions go relatively well. A few locked discussions shouldn't tar a history of well done ones. Most drop off after a day or two, and few last longer than several days. What separates the Senate and the JCC is the style of discussion that takes place. There's a mostly separate base of members that participate as well, and that's most likely a function of each person's interest in the respective discussion styles.

All that's really required for serious discussions to do well in the JCC is a responsible set of members and moderators who intuitively understand when to let people argue strongly and when to pull things back.

Overall, all this talk about increasing traffic and discussion is mostly for a lost cause. We'll continue to lose people as the months and years go by, as there just isn't much of a gravity force to hold things together. Rearranging forums would be akin to changing the deck chairs on the Titanic. There's a solid core group here that will continue to post for years to come, with the usual less-ardent group of posters beyond that and the intermittent posters further still along the spectrum. There's nothing substantial coming along to either expand things much or even just hold steady. There'll be a stopping point, I imagine, where things will find an equilibrium, but we haven't hit that yet.

 

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 Date Posted: 11/30/08 12:59pm Subject: RE: JC ideas and suggestions
rhonderoo posted:
If either of those two forums are condensed back into JCC, the JCC mods need to be prepared to mod with a little more deference to those type threads.
This is true. The more special-interest social forums we reabsorbed into JCC, the more the place would resemble itself circa 2004. Lots of people who don't necessarily get along, vs. a fairly harmonious trickle of users. The demands on the remaining mods would go way up. Obviously, we couldn't combine anything without strong moderator buy-in.

 

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 Date Posted: 11/30/08 1:00pm Subject: RE: JC ideas and suggestions - Date Edited: 11/30/08 1:10pm (1 edits total) Edited By: KnightWriter
ophelia posted:
rhonderoo posted:
If either of those two forums are condensed back into JCC, the JCC mods need to be prepared to mod with a little more deference to those type threads.
This is true. The more special-interest social forums we reabsorbed into JCC, the more the place would resemble itself circa 2004. Lots of people who don't necessarily get along, vs. a fairly harmonious trickle of users. The demands on the remaining mods would go way up. Obviously, we couldn't combine anything without strong moderator buy-in.


2004? Try 2000-01, when the Senate and Amphitheatre didn't actually exist (until late October of 2001, when the Senate came along).

 

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 Date Posted: 11/30/08 1:25pm Subject: RE: JC ideas and suggestions
Yes, I know, the Senate is older. tongue I'm thinking of the last time people tried to enforce different kinds of "on-topic" in JCC. A rough job, no doubt about it.

Still, if some of the satellite non-SW forums go under, JCC will end up absorbing what was left of them anyway.

 

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 Date Posted: 11/30/08 1:32pm Subject: RE: JC ideas and suggestions
It's not impossible, but there has to be preparedness for the type of posters that Senate could bring, and they absolutely have their place. I've seen serious Senate posters get impatient with the JCC style, and I've seen JCC regulars be unaccepting of serious Senate posters style and form of debating. Mods would really need to be familiar with both style of poster, along with some knowledge of topics (Senate mods like Ender, Kimball, etc. come to mind) and the ability to call people on either kind of discussions.

Serious JCC topics have been very successful, but mostly with posters that post in both JCC and the Senate (malkie, KW, Quix are users that come to mind), as these guys are used to the posts in between the knowledgeable posts that can distract from the discussion, cause contention and even lead to discussions being locked -- posts by those that don't frequent Senate.

 

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 Date Posted: 11/30/08 3:55pm Subject: RE: JC ideas and suggestions
I'd just point out that there is a subset of rules in how the Senate works that doesn't exist, as actual rules, in JCC. Things like one line posts aren't generally accepted in posts in the Senate, while they're fine in JCC.

I'd compare it to how there's a difference between formal debate and just arguing with someone. Which is not to say that they couldn't happen elsewhere if the Senate were reabsorbed, just that there's different styles to keep in mind.

I've been a bit surprised in finding out how many people apparently read the Senate for the posts in it but don't, themselves, post. This thread here: http://boards.theforce.net/the_senate_floor/b10320/29349229/p1/?71
I'd say this aspect of it doesn't work as well with JCC just with how fast things move in there.

 
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 Date Posted: 11/30/08 4:46pm Subject: RE: JC ideas and suggestions
I think I read the Senate maybe twice a week, more if there's something 'serious' going on, but I'd never, ever, ever post there. Ever. I just don't have the skillz to bring my opinion to the table without being ripped to shreds. Which is how I see the debating going on in there. I find it hard to see the difference between snark and debate anyway...One of the things I hated about moderating was having to go into the Senate Lite! threads to try and figure out who was flaming and who was arguing (Jellol and a few others got caned quite a bit before I figured out that perhaps he wasn't being the snarky person I assumed he was all of the time)

I think the combining of Amph and JCC would be a great idea, should we need to. I love reading that place and it would bring a bit of the culturevulture back to the JCC.

But combining the Senate and JCC would invite both 'serious' posters into a place where they wouldn't be as appreciated and not so serious people to spam threads that would normally be safe from 'lol wut'.

Like Lowbacca said...there are underlying sets of rules. They'd go out the window within seconds. Not to mention the need to combine the moderating teams into an uber team so that the two cultures don't clash, or retraining the ones who decide to stay on so they get both the debating side and the fun side.

 

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Date Posted: 11/30/08 5:10pm Subject: RE: JC ideas and suggestions
i really think the senate should be left alone. of all the non-sw forums it's the one that really does something different from the jcc. i think there's a reason that most senate folk don't frequent the jcc and vice versa. people are looking for different things out of a messageboard and i think in this case forcing them to co-mingle is just asking for trouble for no real reason.

but honestly that's the only non-sw forum that i feel that way about. it used to be that games had a different culture and style but it seems that's mostly gone. the amphitheater was created iirc for in depth discussion of literature, philosophy and the fine arts. but as it stands, aside from a few threads and posters, it's really a bunch of threads about tv shows and movies with three word replies typical of any jcc thread. the sci fi forums and arena also only take discussion away from the jcc imo.

 
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 Date Posted: 11/30/08 5:11pm Subject: RE: JC ideas and suggestions
Aww, I used to love the Senate Lite. Then again, I used to end up with a lot of 20-page threads that had to be nursed through the night, and then locked by dawn, anyhow. tongue

I'm another person who would still post in the Senate proper if only I had the time. That place can devour days. hypnotized

Assuming that it's going to retain its independence, could something be done to make it easier for people to participate? That was a really enlightening link, Lowie . . . it looks like a lot of people enjoy the forum, but either don't have the time to enter a research-based discussion, or feel too intimidated to try.

These posters actually remind me a bit of the "readers only" who lurk in Fanfic. There have been some fairly successful attempts to draw Fanfic lurkers in, although most of them involved a heck of a lot of work on somebody's part. I can dig some out of my memory, but maybe the Senate mods could also go to the Fanfic mods for suggestions?

Not an obvious partnership, but both forums require users to put an enormous amount of effort into writing. Both also have a lot of silent viewers who would like to participate actively, but feel that they can't.

 

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Date Posted: 11/30/08 5:30pm Subject: RE: JC ideas and suggestions - Date Edited: 11/30/08 5:38pm (3 edits total) Edited By: Boba_Fett_2001
tom posted:
the amphitheater was created iirc for in depth discussion of literature, philosophy and the fine arts. but as it stands, aside from a few threads and posters, it's really a bunch of threads about tv shows and movies with three word replies typical of any jcc thread.
Exactly, but I've been saying for years now to just get rid of the "in-depth discussion" tag and just make it a regular discussion forum for TV, books, movies, etc where people can post a la YJCC style. I think putting Amph into YJCC will make it really crowded but there will be very little problems doing what I have suggested. For every movie, TV, etc thread in YJCC, you're almost guaranteed to find one for the same subject in Amph. So it's really just a matter of closing down the YJCC threads. Right now, the only thing that really separates the two forums are the hosted discussions. Perhaps Amph should exist only for those, I don't know.

 

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